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Paddington rulz ok
3 months ago
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Official Discussion: Hereditary [SPOILERS}

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Summary:

When Ellen, the matriarch of the Graham family, passes away, her daughter’s family begins to unravel cryptic and increasingly terrifying secrets about their ancestry. The more they discover, the more they find themselves trying to outrun the sinister fate they seem to have inherited.

Director:

Ari Aster

Writers:

screenplay by Ari Aster

Cast:

  • Toni Collette as Annie Graham

  • Alex Wolff as Peter Graham

  • Milly Shapiro as Charlie Graham

  • Gabriel Byrne as Steve Graham

  • Ann Dowd as Joan


Rotten Tomatoes: 93%

Metacritic: 87/100

After Credits Scene? No

15.9k comments
98% Upvoted
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level 1

Just finished watching Hereditary. Seriously, I don’t get scared nor disturbed by horror movies, because I’m so used to them and most of them are quite the same. This movie truly screwed my up. Like I haven’t seen a movie with that much focus on depression and loneliness, without feeling slow and boring, I’ve never seen a movie that portrays sadness and the actual crying and wailing in a way that is real, not just a dramatic scene where the screen cuts to black or the cries are too theatrical. The actors did a wonderful job portraying sadness, anger and the deepest and the most mundane conversations in the most realistic and natural manner.

Even the most minute details in this movie are well crafted. I’m genuinely surprised by how good it is. It’s right there close to Mother! for me. It leaves you with this sense of “did things really happen the way we saw them? Is this a supernatural movie about hereditary demonic possession, or is it just the way it seems in the eyes of those with hereditary mental illness?”, and it was equally great in both counts.

level 1

Wow, the first half of this movie pulled off horror in a totally new but super effective way. No killer clowns, no curses, no demons (yet), just a family falling apart following a terrible tragidy. The shock that Peter went through was so believable and honestly I can't even begin to imagine how I would have responded if I were in his situation. The mom's wailing and the atmosphere in the house in the following days were just all too real. I have never suffered a loss remotely like this, but it still felt way too real. The movie just made me feel terrible.

Then, of course, it spins off into all this occult cultist stuff with the "Eighth King of Hell" or whatever, and while that portion is also good, I would say that the grounded part prior to it was more gripping and draining.

level 1

I just want to say that this movie benefits greatly from surround sound.

That click that Peter hears behind him in class, just chills down my spine.

Plus when Annie finds the pages moving in Charlies room, so creepy.

I’m sleeping with the lights on tonight...

level 1

Throughout the majority of the movie I was interpreting all the twists and turns as foreshadowing the realities of mental health exactly like the movie Babadook. About 10 minutes towards the end I realized I was disappointingly wrong.

level 2
2 points · 1 day ago

Was Babadook all about mental illness? Didn't the demon actually exist? Though I found it odd she kept it in the basement in the end.

level 1
4 points · 3 days ago · edited 3 days ago

The first half of this film creates and sustains a gut-twisting dread out of a very terrestrial circumstance, but pretty much the moment Joan's son visited from the dead I felt it was headed downhill. Personally, I'd like to see a version of this film that features Joan (and maybe Annie) as an objectively nutty grieving mother trying to dump her agony into something she can convince herself to believe. I felt like Annie's contorted cries at the sight of her daughter's corpse, paired with the frame of Charlie's ant-ridden head, set this film in motion to be a brutal real-life horror honing in on the dissolution of a nuclear family through severe trauma. It could have implemented characters like Joan along the way to cement the nightmare that is losing a family member, especially in the way Annie was forced to confront it.

Instead, we're given spirits corrupting bodies and forcing them to climb around on walls, self-harm and conveniently trip up while trying to murder their children, a la The Babadook and Oculus. Throw in some domestic demonic enthusiasm and evil spirits brewing just under the surface a la House of the Devil, Antichrist, The Ritual and The Conjuring. Not to mention the kids these days seem to be into the naked old people horror and drawn-out shots of a mediocre young adult actor pretending to be disturbed to his core as per It Follows and It Comes At Night. It truly did feel like a freshman outing in its paint-by-numbers execution of so many plot threads, themes and visuals throughout its third act in particular**. A24 seems to occasionally tread on the very-safe formula with its horror films.

The final ten-odd minutes of the film are utterly silly, and frankly, I am convinced the film was shot and edited explicitly for comedic intent right around the 1-hour 56-minute mark. While Annie sawing away at her neck starts out relatively unsettling, the clear nature of the puppetry is given away by her eyelids in the close-up shot. It explodes into a gut-buster of a moment as the pace of her sawing picks up erratically with cartoonishly frenetic and unrealistic movement. Peter's terrified stare is cut off by a group of random naked people waving at him, to which he responds with a Simpsons-esque jump out a third-story window, accompanied with a delayed downward pan to his pancaked body reminiscent of a Wright film (or something). All the scene needs is to replace the weird "ding" sound that cuts off the violent music with a classic record scratch, and people would be praising this as a revolutionary horror-comedy. Don't even get me started on framing essentially the entire final scene as a close-up on this dumbass pos kid's best Ryan Gosling impression. A solid thematic foundation of deep-rooted trauma and ugly honesty is curdled to sate a cocky new director's hunger for faux art house cred.

level 1

Aweeesome ass movie. The only complaint I have is peter’s bad crying.

level 1

This movie was terrible. Me and some friends had a drinking night, and I convinced them to try this based solely on the head-lines. Didn't watch the trailer, didn't know anything about it except it was supposedly "super scary", "the scariest horror movie", blah blah.

What a bunch of crap. It wasn't paced well, the "scary" scenes were hilarious (we lost our fucking shit at the car scene, and again when it focused on the flies along the side of the road), nothing ever seems to happen, and the end was just... stupid. We all came back and looked at these reviews and people gushing -- what the hell is wrong with you people?

I liked The Babadook, I really liked Get Out, I loved The Conjuring, but good god this was a load of crap.

level 2
1 point · 1 day ago

Thank you. We should be friends.

level 2
-4 points · 1 day ago

Totally agree. Just saw it. Wasn't very compelling. Nothing seemed to happen. Disappointed

level 2
3 points · 2 days ago · edited 2 days ago

I agree. I know I will get downvoted like you were, but some parts of the film were funny, and extremely hilarious even if they were not meant to be.

I could totally see someone watching this with friends and making a smoking/drinking game out of the film if that's what you like to do. I don't use soft drugs anymore or even hard drugs like alcohol which I would drink in moderation, but had this film came out when I was a teen, or a young adult at university I would have loved to get super baked and watch it with friends!

level 3
0 points · 2 days ago · edited 2 days ago

Oh, forgot I made that comment. Huh, only -10. Not sure if I'm surprised it's only that low, or impressed it's that low in a 3-month-old thread.

Making a drinking game out of this would be a lot more fun; every time you laugh at something that was ostensibly supposed to be scary or serious:

The telephone pole!

The post telephone-pole scene with the flies

* Classroom scene

The scene with the dad

The shadow on the wall

Head-banging scene

The tree-house levitation

If I ever suffer the misfortune of watching this again, I'll probably find some more.

level 4

The party scene with everyone smoking weed, and listening to hip hop about smoking wet (the drug PCP) was also funny.

level 4
0 points · 2 days ago · edited 2 days ago

I just finished watching the film, so I came on here to read reviews.

Those parts of the film were funny! Just like when Peter, instead of running out the front, side door of the house runs upstairs to the attic, sees the naked people and crashes out the window.

I went into this film knowing it was a horror film, but I thought it was going to be more about geneaology than it was. My local library had it on DVD so I am glad I didn't pay to see it at the cinema or stream via Amazon.

level 1

I really enjoyed this movie. It's not perfect, but I will say it's one of the better horror movies when it comes to plot, character development, and cinematography. Some of my issues were the embroidered welcome mat conspiracy and scrapbook reveal--although it had the creepy ominous music--was kind of funny because it was almost TOO obvious. I also thought the character of the father was meh. This film seemed like it paid homage to some Roman Polanski films, which I appreciated because although that dude is a creep, he's made some creepy movies. Probably because he IS a creep... Anyway, I also liked the mythology piece and that the writers did a pretty decent job incorporating it in correctly. Denofgeek has a really good summary/explanation of some of the aspects of the film and I'd recommend anyone else intrigued by the movie to check it out: http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/hereditary/274079/hereditary-ending-explained

Also, something I was thinking about was how even though this is a horror movie and it's pretty much solidly in the demonic/cult category, it's interesting if you think about the fanatical devotion of the cult to Paimon, and how even though this specific movie is fiction, there are plenty of real people who kill in the name of religious/ideological beliefs because they believe they are doing what is right and what must be done...and also...how many times those beliefs get passed down through families...

level 1

How did the mom end up in the attic (after headbang scene)? That part was kinda wierd - it's like she teleported or became an aparition and flew up to through the ceiling.

level 2

Wait, so you can accept she can suddenly fly but not pass through walls? ;-)

level 1

I heard so many good things about this movie and I finally got to watch it yesterday. It is in fact the best horror film I've seen in a looooong time, since Oculus and The Babadook, which all three movies have a similar feel to them. Lots of "is this really happening of is so-so character hallucinating?" moments.

I really thought this was going to end in the mom having dementia/schizophrenia which her family had(hence hereditary) There are many scenes that hinted towards that theory, I thought Joan was going to end up being a fake and it would turn out the mom did everything. There was a scene near the end where Annie goes to Joan's place but she's not home, but the camera pans to a security camera. Making me believe we would see footage of Annie talking to herself.

Only problem I had was the ending, which I had the same issue as with The Babadook, where they made "it" real. I wished they stayed in the "it was all in their head" realm.

Being a horror fan (that hates cheap jump scare "horror" movies) this was a breath of fresh air. I was genuinely terrified in many aspects. Kudos to everyone involved in the production. The acting was beyond any expectations I had as well.

level 1

Was Annie in the cult too? She was wearing the same necklace as her mom. If she wasn't in the cult, was she in the know of who her mom really was?

level 2

I am not going to spoil it but watch the film again, and pay attention to the last scene and what is revealed to the viewer.

level 2

I don't think she was aware until half way thro the movie. Annie emphasises she was estrange with her mother, but finding out about it, along with Charlie's death probably triggered something in her. Also there's probably some type of "curse" with the lineage, so she would be involved whether she knew or not.

level 1
8 points · 5 days ago

The ending ruined the movie for me. I thought it was pretty stupid.

level 2

It was very reminiscent of a popular 60s horror film.

level 3

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/hereditary/274079/hereditary-ending-explained

The director mentioned one of the movies he was inspired by, Rosemary's Baby. Similar endings, in terms of the unveiling of the cult.

level 4

yep, thats what i was thinking.

level 1

Literally just got done watching the film like 2 minutes ago. First off, one of the best horror films I've seen in a LONG LONG time. I got full on body shivers on a few of the scenes and kicked my bed saying "holy shit fuck this movie is scary" LOL. The cast was PERFECT, the mom scared the shit out of me the entire film. Literally would've rated the movie a 10/10 if they changed the ending. The end seemed too "explanatory" and hate endings that do that. But wow, lol so many scenes got me, and I've seen a lot of movies. This movie is not a jump scare type movie - if you want to actually get scared, watch the film.

level 1

This movie opened up a whole new can of worms for horror films. Honestly, it set a standard for me that may not be surpassed by other average scary movies.

Goddamn I was uncomfortable through the entire thing.

level 1

I just saw this movie and tbh I dont understand all the positive reviews. This movie sucked, it was fucking awful. I didnt get scared once, the pace was unbelievable slow, they could have left the whole part about the mom making miniatures out of the film, and once you thought it was going to get good, it fucking ended. The ending was also pretty stupid, it just left more questions.

level 2

Everyone has their own taste. I thought the movie moved along with an ever increasing suspense, and had some creepy and disturbing scenes like the mom hanging on the ceiling like a spider in the shadows of the boys dark room, then her hanging upside down on the attic door banging her head against the panel like a woodpecker then to see her cutting her own head off while suspended in mid-air. A lot of people like this movie. If this movie stinks so bad, then what would you say a good horror movie is?

level 2

Why do you have to try and swim against the tide, why do you have to dislike it because everyone else likes it? If you didn’t like the ending you clearly didn’t understand the film

level 3

I did understand it, and it was stupid. It wasn't even close to being scary. It was just awful, I couldn't take it. 2 hours for a drama, that claims to be a horror movie. This has got to be at the bottom of my list for any horror movie I've ever seen

level 4

How was it stupid? You can try to be all tough and say it wasn’t scary, but it was scary, and uncomfortable to watch, which was exactly the purpose. Definitely top of the list for horror movies I’vs seen.

level 5

What do you mean how? For one it was a 2 hour movie, that dragged on and on. There was so many stupid fillers that had absolutely no purpose to the plot, like the moms obsessions with the miniatures. The whole time I was watching it I was thinking when is this actually going to get scary. The first hour and 45 minutes was basically like a drama, and once it gets to the last 15 minutes that's when it gets scary, but you waited so long for something scary to happen that when it finally does, you're just like fuck this movie, and the scary scenes are more humorous than they are funny. The worst part was the horrible fucking ending, Charlie was an ancient demon king from hell you learn, and then he gets thrown into a male body and it fucking ends. How big of a threat is this evil king? It was a waste of time

level 6
[deleted]
0 points · 5 days ago

Seems like you just want everyone to know you're a big boy and don't get scared.

level 7

Or I thought the movie was shitty

level 8
[deleted]
1 point · 5 days ago

You probably watched it with the lights on at Weenie Hut Jr.

level 9

The movie wasn't even fucking scary man

level 10
[deleted]
-1 points · 5 days ago

Yeah it's not, if you watched it with the lights on in a small window while you kept r/eyebleach open in your other monitor and tried to make jokes to keep you from being terrified.

level 1

This movie was so well done and so well acted, especially by Alex Wolff and Toni Collette. I loved the slow burn nature of the film and how unsettling it was. I was a little disappointed with the devil worship/cult angle towards the end because it felt a little cliched but I loved this movie regardless.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned was the scarring on Annie's wrist. I noticed it when she was going through her mother's books the second time. It looked like some kind of language that I thought was for sure going to end up having something to do with the cult, but I never got an answer. Did anyone else notice this? Any theories?

level 1

This is one of the best horror movies I've seen in a long time. The characters keep your attention and the fluidity of the story makes sense. I found the movie to be quite disturbing . I guess that is part of evaluating a good horror movie .

There were a couple things I didn't quite understand. Whose body was in the Attic? Was it the little girls, or the grandmas? If it was the little girls, then what happened to the Grandma's body from the cemetery? If it was the grandmas body in the Attic, then how come her head was missing. I thought the body in the Attic looked a little too big for the little girl.

Secondly, what was going on with the mom that she was able to crawl on walls, hang from the ceiling, and was able to cut her own head off and levitate up to the treehouse? Was she also possessed by this demon? If the mom was possessed by the demon, then at what point did the demon move into the boy?

level 2

It was the Grandmas body and I believe the head was removed as part of the ritual.

After she sees her husband combust you can see the blue light which is the demon Paimon posses her. Then when the boy jumps out the window Paimon leaves the mother and enters the boy.

level 1

One thing that slightly bothers me is what if Annie had gone through the photo albums and seen the pictures of Joan before/soon after meeting her. Wouldn’t the cult’s ruse have been spoiled?

I suppose Joan approaching Annie was the “plan B” after she didn’t bite on the pamphlet and there could have been a “plan C”, but it almost seems like dumb luck that Annie happened to not go through the box.

level 2
2 points · 6 days ago

When Annie was doing the prayer with her family in their home was that the trigger for paimon coming out and then into Annie? Otherwise it would have just been left with Charlie?

level 3
[deleted]
5 points · 5 days ago

Yeah, I think the seance was a trick Joan used to get Annie to unwittingly perform an evocation and bring Paimon to posses herself.

level 4

I agree. Once we know Joan is the big bad we have to look at everything she's done before that is revealed with fresh eyes. I think the spirits of her grandson and Charlie are just tricks so Annie will say the words to start an open seance, opening up their world/house to ANY spirit from the other side

level 5
[deleted]
5 points · 3 days ago

Charlie's spirit may just be Paimon. Joan refers to whoever posses Peter's body as both Charlie and Paimon in the final scene.

level 1

I thought it was a good movie, and slightly better when you consider its in the horror genre. I also feel like there’s way too much hype surrounding it. It really wasn’t that scary — have no idea how people have been talking about fainting and not being able to sleep for days after. I found it to be more unsettling than legitimately frightening. That said the nightmare scene when the mom is yelling at Peter about trying to abort him and then it cuts to them both soaked in paint thinner was great. Also the music at the end was incredible and really sold it too — I like that it wasn’t some forced resolution, they decided to go full dark. Some things were kind of unforgivable though — a solid amount of awkward dialogue, the stupid tongue clicks, undeveloped characters. Overall, I really dig the effort and would say it’s a must-see if you’re a fan of horror, but if you just want to view it as a film, regardless of genre, I’d say it was a 7.5/10

level 1
7 points · 6 days ago · edited 6 days ago

Finally got a chance to see this movie. I had read some mixed reviews but managed to avoid spoilers so I didn't know what to expect. Wanted to share a few thoughts and try to remain mostly spoiler free for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

The tone of the movie is still lingering with me about 2 days after watching it. I've gone back and re-watched some scenes, particularly the ending because the music is both beautiful and haunting and vibes well with the disturbing imagery. Far too many horror films lack a resounding cinematic experience in addition to the horror. This one nailed the ending for what could have easily just gone off-the-rails crazy. It was still crazy, but not in the usual way that horror films end where the evil is eradicated and all is well until the final jump scare.

The practical effects were disturbingly well done. So much care must have gone into making that smashed face look as realistic and horrific as possible.

The trailer did a good job concealing some of the major plot turns while still promoting the film. You really can't tell what this film is about from just watching the trailer. These thoughts don't have anything to do with the film itself but I wanted to point out how well the trailer teases the film.

Overall, it was a great movie and will likely creep you at the least. Like I said, the tone of the film is what I remember most so it might ruin someone's good mood if not watched at the right time.

level 1

near the end when peter wakes up after his father burning..

his mom being in the top left corner the ENTIRE time was creepy. you can barely see her

level 2

That was a nice touch

level 1

i was high and fainted for the first time in my life during the whole allergy - pole accident scene.

really odd as ive seen some weird shit online

level 1
13 points · 8 days ago

Okay, did anyone else notice the one really awkward line that the dad had? And do you remember it?? It's driving me nuts, I just remember that his wording was so awkward but not what he said.

level 2

Definetly knew what line you were talking about as soon as i read your question. Out of everything that bothered me in that movie, i don't know how that also stuck with me.

level 3

It also bothered me in the moment but forgot about it until I read the question just now.

level 2
41 points · 7 days ago

"What language is even that?"

level 3
1 point · 5 days ago

THANK YOU!!!!

level 3

I noticed that too, I wonder if it was written like that or if he improv'd it or messed up the line. Either way it didnt really bother me bc human beings mess up their words sometimes so it makes sense that movie characters would.

level 3

yupp

level 1
14 points · 8 days ago

Just finished it last night..I thought it was shocking at times but overall great..I'm a jaded horror fan but this movie had me hooked all throughout..I didn't like where the movie ended up but I still recommend it for horror fans

level 2

shocking at times and* overall great you mean?

level 3
6 points · 7 days ago

Yes! The only thing hurting it got me was the devil worship angle and the ending..it is almost comically bad

level 4
2 points · 6 days ago

I personally would have loved it to be a bit more grounded on 'science' or reality, but the supernatural aspect of it seems to resonate with a lot of other people.

level 5

The supernatural angle was perfect. The entire plot is set up to keep you thinking it's about a woman who has inherited dementia, and then make you second guess yourself, only to wonder if it's all in her head again. It makes you feel crazy.

AND THEN SURPRISE ITS THE ACTUAL FUCKING DEVIL WTF

level 1

Absolutely great movie, i'd say the best horror i have ever seen. I just have one stupid question - why was there no police involved when peter killed charlie? Not even a hint of any police involvement or any authorities.

level 2

There were flashing lights outside his bedroom window the morning after the accident, that weren't related or similar to the lights in the tree fort or the supernatural arc/beams, I assumed that was the authorities.

level 2
12 points · 7 days ago

it wasn’t important to the plot, i’m sure authorities were involved but what would have been the point in showing it? it would have just been a lot of filler.

level 2

I took that as the local police force having members of the cult embedded into them, although that wasn't ever hinted at in the film

level 2

I think they deliberately omitted a lot of that stuff from the movie. Same with stuff involving the school. All this crazy stuff happening and no input from school officials? I think they left it out because it wouldn't have really added anything.

level 2
2 points · 8 days ago

Ehh he didn't kill her exactly..it was an accident but I asked the same question..no police involvement? Did Peter simply go home and tell his parents and go to bed?

level 3

Did Peter simply go home and tell his parents and go to bed?

What I found really fucked up was that he didn't call the police after the accident happened. He just drove the car home and left her decapitated head in the car for his mom to find the next morning. That was extremely fucked up of him. No mother should go through that. He should have call 911 for them to clean up the remains. I was so mad that he did that to his mom (leaving Charlie's rotting head I mean...)

level 4
10 points · 6 days ago

I thought he left Charlie's head on the side of the road hence why it was shown in the daytime covered in ants?

level 5

I'm sorry, I meant body, not the head.

level 4

People do crazy things when they're in shock.

level 4

I really think that the movie was trying to imply that he mentally couldn't process it. He's just a kid who killed his sister, I'd probably be unable to tell anyone for a few days when I was that young. He crawled into bed leaving the body there because what else could you do? Yes it was fucked up but I doubt it was on purpose.

level 3

I think he just went home and went to bed, and just let his parents find out in the morning when they saw her in the car

level 4
6 points · 8 days ago

It seemed to go into a dream like state at that point so it's hard to tell exactly what happened..he did just drive home with the headless body in his car though...bizarre

level 5
-5 points · 8 days ago(4 children)
level 6
6 points · 7 days ago

Is that when the dad walks in on her doing it? Because I thought that first too but it's actually peters doll in bed with his head off.

level 6

No, no he definitely left it in the car. The dollhouse stuff was just aa creepy moment.

level 6
3 points · 7 days ago

Wow I missed this..I will need to go back and rematch it! I provably missed a few things..it's do rare that a modern horror movie makes me to want to watch it twice

level 6
12 points · 7 days ago

I just finished watching the movie, but that doesn't seem to be what happened according to what her mother tells Joan... she said she "could smell something wrong first" then explains she saw the body. The scene where she discovers the body she clearly says she's going out to buy balsa wood and then walks to the car and gets in...

level 5

The immediate aftermath of the pole accident was so much more insane to me than the accident itself! I was just saying “what the fuck is he doing” as soon as it started focusing on peter in the front seat, all the way until you hear Annie crying the next morning. He. Just. Drove. Away. And left the body in the car. So much wtf

level 3

Yeah an accident, still i mean a person was killed. Some authorities have to be notified wtf.

level 1

So will Paimon be asking Bridget to prom? Or still too shy?

level 2

This is my favorite question on the whole thread Haha. Thanks for the laugh after that completely disturbing mess that just went down for me.

level 1

I just watched this for the first time earlier today and I’m trying to digest it all! Fantastically done and truly one of the best psychologically captivating films I’ve seen in years.

The one puzzle piece I can’t seem to find significance in is this: when Annie visits Joan’s house for the first time she drinks a cup of tea and a leaf or something gets stuck to her lip. The camera zooms in on it and then immediately cuts to a shot of Joan. I suspect that this was some hint at something due to the camera work. But I can’t wrap my head around it. Any thoughts??

level 2

In the original script, the connection is made clearer: the same leaf concoction is also in the baby bottle when Ellen feeds baby Charlie. Just more creepy ritual stuff.

level 2

Could be Joan spiked the tea.

level 2

I don't know exactly what it is, but there's also the woman that rubs something on the grandmother's lips at the funeral. part of the ritual?

level 2

Yeah I noticed that as well. Honestly I don't think it's really something that significant. But if I have to guess I would say some sort of leaf residue from her creepy ass rituals that she was hiding.

level 1

Hereditary feels like a movie made by a filmmaker actively mocking the horror genre - and I mean that in the best way possible.


In two major areas, it hits you with the potential of it being a trope-filled, convential popcorn horror movie (Evil Kid misdirect + Haunted House misdirect), but by the end it successfully subverts your expectations in one of the best ways I've ever seen in a movie. The last ten minutes should go down in cinematic history.

level 2
12 points · 8 days ago

My jaw dropped to the floor during the after party scene. As you said, I was expecting to go through the typical route of evil possession - haunted house.

level 3
12 points · 8 days ago

Ha yeah I usually don't get rocked easily during the movies but that telephone pole scene was a complete "holy shit!" Moment..I did not expect that at all, I loved it

level 1
15 points · 9 days ago

So if Charlie had Paimon in her the whole time and that could help explain her never crying and the tom boy aspect, do you think there is any importance to Annie saying she was a tom boy as a child too? Maybe gramma tried Paimon in her as well as a child? Maybe after failing with the males in the family

level 2

What’s the evidence of Charlie having Paimon? I totally missed that

level 3

Her appearance, the clicking tongue, the playing with voodoo-esque dolls, beheading the pigeon, special connection with the Grandma, etc

level 4

And the very end when Joan says “paimon, we found you a more suitable host than the female body” or something like that

level 5

OH and the mom said she never let the grandmother see Peter when she had him, so I guess she wasn’t able to make him a host so she had to settle for Charlie once the mom resumed contact. Dang,

level 6
10 points · 6 days ago

Also that she wished Charlie had been a boy, which makes sense down the line when we find out Paimon ultimately wants a male host.

level 7
2 points · 5 days ago

I really find this off, If Palmon was in her the whole time why was he saying this? Does it mean that he isn't aware that he is Palmon and that he needs a male host or something? I think the possession started when she started seeing the light in her room but what's weird is she was already making the tongue noise before that incident...

level 8

I think she is possessed before that but the followers influencing things and the emotional stress that is going on around them is stimulating him to try and escape/find a more suitable vessel.

level 8
[deleted]
5 points · 5 days ago

I don't know if Paimon is always himself during a possession. He possesses Peter at school, but only for that fucked up moment. I think Charlie was a mix between a real kid and a demon that was influencing her heavily.

level 9

Yeah that's how I saw it too.


Paimon is less a figure and more of a force.. if that makes sense. Mom didn't allow Grandma access to Peter when he was born so she wasn't able to insert Paimon into him. She wished Charlie had been a boy (multiple references throughout the movie) and inserted him into her despite it being less than ideal. He controls Charlie but due to her being a female he isn't able to fully express his powers. He needed to break down Peter completely in order to full take control and be at maximum strength. He could only briefly control him in the school because he was mentally still too strong. After seeing his dead Dad, being attacked by Mom, seeing the naked cult members, seeing Mom killing herself.. he finally snapped and was weak enough to be possessed. The cult facilitated everything by manipulating the Mom and Peter with the seance, incantations, etc.


Watched it a second time and it's pretty amazing how everything kind of clicks in.

level 10
[deleted]
3 points · 5 days ago

Yeah, just such a crazy ride that the movie goes from Charlie -> Annie -> Peter and that that's where it was ultimately heading from the first minute of the movie. Everything is just to pass Paimon to Peter.

level 5

I think there's a ton that I missed. The creepy dude that smiles at her in the funeral at the start..

level 6

I think that's the first naked person Peter sees in the living room after finding his BBQ'ed dad. Somehow his wicked smile was the clue to the cult thing for me.

level 7

Yeah I think you're right.

level 7

That smile man h o l y s h I t

level 2

oh definitely. at the loss meeting, annie talks about her brother killing himself in his teens because his mother "was trying to put people inside him". I think she tried really hard to carry Paimon to Annie, but it never took until Charlie

level 1
25 points · 9 days ago · edited 3 days ago

Man, what a great movie. The scene that got to me the most was when while the mother was having a nightmare, she described to Peter how she purposefully tried to have a miscarriage when he was in her womb. Just...wow.

edit: grammar, removed a word

level 2

then escalates out of nowhere to paint thinner...match strike. I didn't realize she was still dreaming then BOOM.

level 1

So I watched for the first time on the weekend, and then I watched the second half again last night whilst my wife was rewatching.

I thought it was a fantastic film - The perfect amount of Scary without banking it all on jump scares.

I would not want to listen to the sound track in a dark room by myself.

I really feel like it was a take on mental illness. I could see all of this unfolding in Annie OR Peter's head as some sort of psychosis brought on by tragedy and in Peter's case, smoking green with a developing brain and mental health issues in the family.

I would love to hear anyone elses take on this as it's just a half baked idea - having watched the movie without knowing anything about it.

level 2

Remember when the mom was at the grievers meeting and she said that her family had a history of schizophrenia ? Well, it could be that all of them were experiencing a schizophrenic episode and none of the supernatural shit happened, only the actual deaths (including grave-robbing the grandma's body).

Isn't schizophrenia also brought on by tramatic life events sometimes ? I don't know, but the whole time I was thinking that they were all going through a schizophrenic episode, minus the dad.

level 3
[deleted]
5 points · 5 days ago

I think it's the other way around.

What she and others in the past presumed was schizophrenia was actually the cult behavior and effects of rituals/possessions in her family's lineage.

The dad wasn't related by blood to Annie's family, and he was experiencing it all too, though he tried to ignore it. (The cemetery calling to let him know the grave was dug up, the shit happening in the seance, etc.)

level 2

Yeah man I totally agree. The backround sounds and music are fantastic. I watched the movie with headphones on and noticed they put a really disturbing bass sound as backround almost all the time. It really got into my nerves.

And on the mental illness thing. I think the creators took and emphasized a lot of real psychological problems from families that have to bear the loss of a loved one and amplified them by a 100x. That scene with Annie crying for the loss of her child was amazing and realistic. And mixing it with the supernatural stuff was perfect for building a really fucking disturbing atmosphere that we as humas can kind of understand.

level 1

I’m upset.

level 2

I took a shower before watching the movie and immediately felt like I need another one after.

level 1

I watched Hereditary last night with the lights out and I was not prepared in any way for it to be THAT good. With Hollywood constantly churning out poorly written jump scare crap, I couldn’t believe what I was watching!This film was so unsettling from the head banging scene to the focus on Peter when his mum is wailing that she wants to die. I didn’t sleep a wink last night (no exaggeration) because I was constantly looking at all corners of my ceiling. I haven’t felt this effected by a horror in years and years.

level 2

Yeah you fuckin know how to watch horror movies. It's that kind of masochism that makes one enjoy this type of movies to their 100%.

The first half of the movie was truly one of the best I've ever seen.... in a horror movie of course. The buildup and unexpected scenes (like the head bang) really got into my nerves. Watching it alone in my apartment in the night was really worth it.

level 2

My friend watched it at work in a tiny quicktime window in the corner of his second monitor, after which he came up to me to flippantly announce it "wasn't that scary." I'm so heated right now.

level 3

I’m seeing so many comments where people watched it like this. What do they expect!

level 1

Q: When Peter was walking down the hall in school and he see's the light go into a room with a small rectangular window, who was in the window looking at him? I couldn't make it out.

level 2
10 points · 11 days ago

Also the person was signaling him to come in.

level 2
8 points · 11 days ago

A version of himself (most likely the evil spirit) smiling.

level 3

Uhh... wasn’t it just the teacher of the class hes in in the next scene? Motioning like “come in, you’re late”

level 3
7 points · 11 days ago

It looked like an old man, maybe it was someone from the congregation of Paimon. Or maybe it was just one of the teachers.

level 4

Question... Wife and I just watched. Wasnt the second teacher also in the occult???

level 5

I paused it on Amazon in the in the last scene and the teacher/actor was listed on Amazon's "extras" that pop up when you pause movies and such.

level 5

Later he's in the attic with two naked women.

level 1

I watched this movie late at night by myself with all the lights off and freaked myself out. I didn't know what it was about other than that it was horror and supposed to be good. A couple of observations

  • excellent writing for the dialogues. The scene where the mom flips out and attacks/blames her son was exceptionally well written and acted. As was his quiet, measured response - you can see her face crack and the hatred and guilt show through. Annie's explanation of her character at a group therapy was also exceptional.

-the shifts in tone were remarkable. Starts out as a ghost story? Shifts to a story on loss of a child and slowly the focus shifts to the mom and then to the son. In parallel the mom's character starts seeming more and more crazy.

-i noticed the music amping up at times during the movie until the end when it was really strong.

Weird, creepy and deeply unsettling - unlike anything I've seen out of horror. I get why some people thought it 2as dumb but if you can overlook some of the flaws and go with the director's flow it's a great piece of horror. I felt like i had goosebumps for over an hour

level 2

This is a perfect synopsis. I can’t think of too many movies, if any, where I can say the plot falls apart and yet the film still somehow retains its greatness.

I watched this movie the other night with my wife. We thought it would just be another horror film and made the mistake of smoking a bit too much weed before watching it. For the first 10-20min we were having a hard time paying attention while we giggled at our popcorn, and then all WTF broke out. From that point on we couldn’t take our eyes off the movie or even talk to each other. When the movie was over I had to watch comedy just to try to minimize the minor PTSD I had.

“Deeply unsettling” is the best word one could use, but doesn’t even come close to describing the way you feel after this movie. It almost grips you the same way a very deep and odd dream can keep you in that state for minutes or hours after you wake up. It’s almost dreamlike too in the sense that the events in the film move so slow that you feel almost paralyzed. And the pace, cinematography, score and acting make these events seem so incredibly traumatic, much the same way dreams can make real-life events seem more traumatic.

level 3

Thanks! Agree - there was a strong dreamlike element that blended well with the surrealism that others mentioned. The lighting, use of the miniature figures/dollhouse as a prop in the storytelling, mad flip through the weird occult symbolism and ancient, evil gods whose name sounds familiar yet alien. All of that was very dreamlike.

It doesn't make perfect sense but i think it's not supposed to make sense and trying to fit it together is to put too much emphasis on the trees and misses the forest. If you're in the mood for a good scare - think of it as a movie version of a horror graphic novel - that movie delivers the chills.

Forgot to mention before - i thought his use of old people as evil might be borrowing from Polanski in Rosemary's Baby. But Polanski used it for a dash of black humor - old New Yorkers yelling 'God is dead, Hail Satan!' is somewhat of an inside joke if you've ever dealt with elderly New Yorkers as your fellow tenant neighbors ;)

Hereditary's use of naked old devil worshipers was more fitting with the overall ambiance of the film - playing with the viewer's feelings of trust, love and compassion for your elders. And, as you point out, it fits with the dream like (nightmarish) vibe of the film.

Good stuff but i don't know when I'll be watching it again. Way, way, way too fucking creepy. If i smoked before i watched i really would have been on the ceiling (joke intended).

level 4
3 points · 8 days ago

That's my only complaint, devil worshippers..I've never found witchcraft or devil worship scary at all..i wish the would have taken the movie in a different direction but oh well, still loved it..

Naked old people standing in the dark definitely was borrowed from the Sentinel..

level 1
16 points · 12 days ago

I saw a few videos discussing this film. One suggested that the cult was pretty much in control making these events happen. A lot of things support that theory - the symbol carved into the pole that ultimately kills Charlie, placing the animal corpse in the road causing the accident. It wad Annie's idea to bring Charlie to the party though. She told Peter to bring her. The cult had nothing to do with that. Maybe they found Charlie was going to the party and used that as an opportunity to try and kill her.

level 2

I think it's more likely they were simply aware of Charlie's death and marked the pole that killed her as a totem.

level 2

I like it that the story works both ways.

By that I mean that, if you were to take it literally as a posession cult story. The story lines up.

But if you look at it from the other direction, all the supernatural stuff being imaginary or signs of psychosis, then it does to. Mostly because the father is the only reliable character in the family and all the supernatural things are only viewed by the other characters. (The only exception being the seance with the mom and the dad, but again this scene is portrayed from the mothers perspective, the glass could have been pushed and her freaked out reactions, might be the real reason why the dad is freaking out).

If they are just suffering psychosis, I'd like to point out it's well portrayed. Their hallucinations start off minute, seeing,hearing people who aren't there. Refractions of the light, seemingly indicating supernatural significance. And the mother being the only one to see Joan the medium woman (other than the son seeing her in the distance during his breakdown) . She approaches her right after she decides she can't attend the grief counseling, when there's no one around and when she speaks to her in the parking lot, no one even glances at them. Both moments occur as the mother is staving off her breakdown in solitude. The son's breakdown increasing in intensity after he's smoked a bowl under the bleachers is also pretty realistic, seeing as thc is a known trigger to hereditary schizophrenia.

level 3

I like your take on it. What do you make, though, of the scene where Annie goes back to Joan's apartment? We see inside the apartment that there is some ritualistic magic going on concerning Peter. This point of view isn't Annie's. It's an omniscient narrator POV that would seem to objectively confirm there's SOMETHING going on beyond psychosis.

level 4
6 points · 11 days ago · edited 11 days ago

The director has pretty much confirmed the ritual and all to be canon.

However, I just admire that psychosis is definitely possible.

The POV being omniscient doesn't really discredit it, in my head that is :p. Because that's what Annie's hobby is, creating omnicient models of her life. Even more so, because the film explicitly starts off "inside" the models.

The director has stated that this was more to emphasise the lack of agency of any of the main characters and how they are just pawns in the game the cult is playing. I just think it lines up perfectly with the lack of agency a person would feel as a victim of hereditary mental disease.

Thanks for posting, I'm loving the shit out of picking this film apart :D the POV was a good catch, I didn't even notice it! EDIT: In fact you could argue it's a symptom of her psychosis kicking into a higher gear, now that I think of it.

level 5

Haha, same here. What I'm taking from this conversation is that everything in the text of the movie is literally happening, down to all it's magical and cult themes, but it can also be interpreted as an analogy for mental illness passed down through families.

It's an interesting take on the usual horror movie trope "am I insane or are the demons after me." It kind of uses one to mean the other.

level 6

Jup, I feel like it's a horrorfilm interpretation of every moment I've had where I went, " oh God, I'm just like my mom/dad." And the sheer helpless dread that instills.

It's also somehow soothing, to know that even in that I'm not alone. Good night man ! (also, just sobbed my eyes out, and I'm not a cryer, at Detachment(2011)) Might have been cause I'm a sub-teacher, but maybe you'll get a kick out of it too. Bye!

level 7

Always open to a film recommendation. Ill check it out, thanks!

level 3

That’s the best plot anylisis I’ve heard. For me the plot had issues (and this explanation is the best I’ve heard that explains most of the holes), but as I’ve said elsewhere, this is one movie where the plot issues don’t damage the overall composition.

level 2

I don't believe the cult had nothing to do with it. I think they were manipulating Annie, the whole family even, and they were unaware of it. When Annie is looking through the photo book of the cultists, its revealed they had been having rituals surrounding a photo of the family. So I think there was some demonic manipulation going on from the start. Everything that happens in the film is coordinated by the cult.

level 1

I often do what Charlie did, take my head out of the car or the bus just to feel the air or some shit. But after watching this movie, I'm terrified of even taking my hand outside the window.

level 2

This happened irl. A lady sticks her upper body out the window and her head gets smashed on a pole. She dies later at the hospital. They're clearly all drunk and there's a video of her filmed from inside the car. Its on r/watchpeopledie and on news articles online. It is normally suggested to not put any body parts out of a car window, being it a hand or foot for that reason.

level 3

That’s one sub you will never find me on.

level 4

Same! Someone linked it elsewhere and I ended up watching it. I haven't dared click on anything else from that sub.

level 1

It’s an above average horror movie. Blends reality and the supernatural but doesn’t deliver much at the end.

level 1

I had heard this was fantastic but I really didn't enjoy it at all. Found myself falling asleep towards the end. I didn't find much of any of it disturbing and I still don't fully understand what the fuck was going on.

level 2

Dude, I feel the exact same way, including falling asleep towards the end. The movie was long and boring, that's all I have to say about it.

level 3

I don't mean to insult with this question, but would you describe yourself as an empathetic person, or not so much? I ask because even before the supernatural stuff really kicked into gear, I really believed the movie was just the story of a family and its members completely unraveling after a tragedy, and I found even that totally compelling and excellently done. Their agony (especially the scene at the dinner table) was so palpable, I couldn't help but feel drawn into it. But I tend to be very empathetic and find it almost automatic to place myself in another's shoes and imagine what they're feeling, which isn't true for everyone. I have a feeling that the movie would be slow and not very engaging without that tendency. The first half would just be watching arguments among strangers, and then the second half wouldn't matter very much either as a result.

level 4

Yes, I'm an empathetic person, and an HSP. I understand what you're saying. The scenes you were referring to were pretty intense, and excellently done like you mentioned. However, I was previously judging it based on the fact it's supposed to be a horror movie. The movie failed terribly at that in my opinion. Maybe it should've been labeled a "thriller".

level 5

Huh, interesting! I had the opposite reaction, it immediately became one of my favorite horror movies. The sense of building dread, without knowing exactly what I was dreading, was so strong and palpable. Ah well, different strokes and all that!

level 4

This exactly. I'm an empath and I felt horrible for the entire family. The dinner table scene mad me extremely anxious. All Peter wanted to do was get high and build up enough courage to talk to the cute girl in class. We've all been there and know how stressful it is. Instead, all hell breaks loose. The acting was great all around.

level 3

I don't understand how anyone could fall asleep during ANY movie unless the movie was someone else's idea, or if they're literally putting it on for background noise.

Much less this movie! I had chills half the time, and that never happens to me from a movie. You probably gotta be in the right mood.

level 4
7 points · 8 days ago

I fall asleep during rom coms but Hereditary really floored me at times..I wasn't sleepy at any point..I'm puzzled as to how people found it boring..do they not like horror or drama movies?

level 4

I did get chills from some parts. But all in all, I found myself waiting for the movie "to start". It kept dragging on and on, just my opinion. The end was underwhelming.

level 1

Qs: When Charlie is walking from the treehouse out to a field near the first of the movie and sees ?grandma? sitting in a field beside a fire, 1) was that grandma? 2) was she really there or just in Charlie/Paimon's mind? 3) If really there, why did mom not see when she came out to find Charlie? 4) if not really there, whose adult size footprints were in the mud when the view showed Charlie walking from above?

level 2
14 points · 12 days ago

I think it was a cult member just hanging out doing cult stuff.

level 3

To Do List:

  1. Groceries

  2. Pick up kids

  3. Start random fire to worship Paimon, one of the 8 kings of Hell

  4. Call Cindy re PTA fundraiser

level 4
3 points · 5 days ago

They show someone standing outside watching Peter through the window while he smokes some weed (you can see the top of their head and their cold breath), I think people were always out there since the "queen" died, waiting and watching to make sure everything goes as planned.

level 4

“Someone has to get things done in this family, Larry; I haven’t seen you out there the last 5 times we’ve had stalking duties. You can just go straight to heaven, you lazy bum!”

level 4
2 points · 12 days ago

Seems reasonable.

level 1

That ending kind of just begs for a sequel.

level 2

Absolutey not.

level 3

Agreed 100%. The feeling of being left in the lurch, not knowing what happened after the cult succeeded, added a huge degree of terror for me. There's about a 1% chance they could tell me what happened via a sequel and leave me with a more positive response to the story. It could probably be done, but I'd much rather it weren't attempted. It was perfect as it was.

level 2
8 points · 11 days ago

A24 isn't really a sequel kind of studio I think. I would only support the idea of a sequel to this if it's made by the same people and it's not just for a cash grab.

level 3

I think a prequel could work quite well. There's loads of material to draw from at the loss meeting where the mother is retelling her family history

level 1

I honestly would’ve liked this movie way more if they left the supernatural stuff out. I thought it would’ve been more effective to play on the fear of harm within a family, fear of insanity, having an unwanted son, fear of responsibility and the impacts of grief. That all felt so much more relatable and frightening than the anti-Christ being summoned by a lady who does scrapbooking in her spare time.

A better ending would’ve been the mom losing it violently and becoming the very thing she said she wasn’t.

level 2
8 points · 8 days ago

Agree with you! My only complaint about the movie is the devil worship ritual aspect..I really wish they would have eliminated that or toned it way down and kept it more of a psychological drama mixed with severe mental illness..that would be much more interesting to watch but once they went into devil worship stuff, I lost interest a bit..

Btw, don't these people know counseling or therapy exists ?!? They are severely troubled or hurting and in need of psychological help yet it's not even hinted at aside from the meeting for those who have lost a loved one..

level 2
19 points · 9 days ago

You don't feel that mental illness as the climax has been done countless times before in horror/thriller flicks? I thought it was refreshing in the sense that there were supernatural forces at work. Albeit, these forces were meant to be construed as Mental illness at times, it was all the more unsettling when you realize there is some dark shit going on with this poor family.

level 3

It has been done before but rarely this well. The screams from the mom, the hollow stares from the son, the tension between the family members when they interacted were more intense than the jump scares. With horror films there is typically a disconnect with the violence and mayhem occurring, especially when their are supernatural forces at work. In this film I didn’t feel that detachment in the first half, I felt the situation that was building up could happen to anyone and then poof it all went back to “oh it’s just ghosts”.

Not saying the hard turn made the film bad, far from it, but it definitely opened my eyes to have a effective a horror film can be the more you relate to the situation.

level 2
13 points · 12 days ago

Yeah that ending was a bit comical and didn't quite fit in

level 3
3 points · 8 days ago

It was borderline silly Imo..I can understand some people thinking the movie was dumb based on the devil worship stuff

level 3

Agreed, I felt an almost disconnect with the movie when the super natural elements were introduced. It was still good, especially with all the subtle hints to ending, but I still greatly preferred the first half of the film. All the tension in that portion seemed grounded and a situation an everyday person could find themselves in.

level 2

I don't know what movie you watched, but the mother DID lose it violently and WAS doing the things she was claiming she wasn't.

level 4
4 points · 7 days ago

Those weren't splashes of paint thinner on her face, they were tears from the emotional state the was in.

level 5
3 points · 5 days ago

I actually went back to rewatch this and I think I was mistaken ... I think it's actually the "light" from the daemon that you see flashing across her face??

level 4

The subtle clues about the cult prove the supernatural forces are real, though I do like the theory that the entire ending is all in the son’s and mother’s head.

Some point to the scene where the cult member is trying to confront the son at the high school as further proof. No one else sees, hears, or even notices the lady except him.

level 4

I'll look for that next watch.

level 1
-3 points · 13 days ago · edited 12 days ago

It was way too slow, it ruined it. There were some interesting moments but sitting there watching someone take 3 god damn minutes to move from one room to the next and stuff was infuriating lol, not suspenseful at all.

edit - lol at the ppl responding and recommending me those shitty marvel movies, get bent

level 2

Holy fuck, every single response to this comment is unbelievably pretentious. You're allowed to criticize a film's attempt at slow pacing without disliking slow-paced movies in general.

level 3

yeah if I had to categorize some of these people they'd be dumb snobs lol

level 2

I recommend Michael Bay for the 3-second attention span

level 2

Avengers Infinity War is probably better for you, my friend

level 2

These movies aren't for you.

level 2

Apparently Transformers 3D is a bit more fast-paced

level 1

I truly thought the miniatures were going to be a major role, maybe the mom predicted everything or something, but they were just her showing of mental illness or non-acceptance by recreating traumatizing scenes.

level 2

Well in the deleted scenes I just watched today, there's a miniature of Annie with blood around her neck like how she dies.

level 3

intriguing, any other deleted scenes notes

level 4

It's mostly more scenes of Peter being depressed honestly lol. Poor Peter.

level 1
-2 points · 13 days ago · edited 12 days ago

The first act is slow but I was into it. But when the neighbor(?) brought up the Ouija board, I kinda rolled my eyes. Such a cliche. I expected something more original.


EDIT: so, y'all into cliches? I bet you'd love this movie then https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ouija_2014/

level 2

I was rolling my eyes too when they started doing seances. Seances have been over done in so many horror movies. I don't know why you were downvoted, you made a valid observation...

level 2

It's funny because the sequel to that movie is awesome. Cliches be damned.

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